Date: 19/12/2020 Time: 21:19
Maria Polizoidou – Journalist
World’s leading expert on Chinese espionage, Nicholas Eftimiades, talked to The Flag Report among other things, about the voter fraud, the coronavirus, the Chinese threat and the Hunter Biden’s laptop.
M.P.: Mr. Eftimiades you sound the alarm during the 90’s about Chinas infiltration in the American political system by revealing that China’s Intelligence Services was identified as a donor to the Bill Clinton presidential campaign through the Democratic National Committee. You wrote books about China’s Intelligence Services, their structure operations and methodology and those books received worldwide recognition. You testified before the US Congress about the Chinese infiltration in the State’s structures. But here we are today talking about if and how the CCP rigged the American elections. How in God’s name, Mr. Eftimiades, we got in this situation?
N.E.: The CCP has had a very strong role and influence in American politics or attempting to influence American politics for decades. When I testified before the Congress; I had private meetings with Congressmen who would tell me offline: “You know Nick I get American companies who come to me and sometimes they even say: look, the Chinese Government wants me to tell you this so I’m telling you, they are pressuring us to give you this opinion.”
So, we’ve seen lobbying actions in Congress, in academic circles, in Think Tanks, all trying to try and influence the American Elite to support China in its development goals. I’ve seen this quite personally and know a number of cases in academic environments where individuals pressured by not giving visas for research in China and have received threats about access to China if they don’t toe the line of the Chinese Communist Party. What is really unique in China’s case is that this effort is magnificently organized, and it engages all of society in its approach. It’s not something we hear just out of diplomatic circles which would be the United States if it was advocating a policy. But it is a comprehensive effort that exists in academic circles, through companies, through NGO’s, through a number of other outlets that the PRC pushes a policy that is being aggressive towards President Trump or welcoming towards President Biden.
M.P.: Mr. Eftimiades we heard many times Sidney Powell saying that China and Iran are somehow connected with the Dominion machines and software. In your professional opinion Iran and China hijacked the Dominion systems?
N.E.: Some of these gets to speculation, but there is a reality on this. And the reality is you’ve really got to get into the software and do a digital forensic analysis to really understand. Not to through allegations which Sidney tends to do, but to really do the detailed analysis and understand exactly what was done and what timeframe was done. We do know that Iran for example was sending fake messages to elderly voter populations in Florida about the elections and trying to get them to vote for Biden. That we know. We do know that China was hacking into many State Governments or attempting to hack into others and to get into the electoral digital apparatus. That we know. What was actually done if anything was actually done, what was manipulated, what was collected, what was influenced; that we don’t know.
Every person should support this investigation. America is probably the world’s greatest experiment in Democracy since the Greeks created it. Every American regardless of political party should really want answers to this because this is our Democracy. And our Democracy is something that this Nation has exported for 50 – 70 years. And the Biden party should want answers; but is doesn’t appear they want answers and there is a lot of political infighting.
So, I can’t give you exact answers if the votes were manipulated and if so how and how many, all those are valid questions, but I do say that the forensic analysis really needs to be done and finished before we know real answers.
M.P.: What your guts, your instinct is saying?
N.E.: My gut says that I don’t think that there was enough wide-scale fraud to go without detection. I mean Homeland Security in the States was pretty good about that, I think if it had been on a wide enough scale that it would have impact in the elections, even as close as they were, I think that we would have seen more of it come up and certainly by the mechanisms of government, Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, some of the States at their levels would have been able to say, “wait a minute we have a problem.” But no one has to date has said that. It doesn’t mean they got the detail analysis that needs to be done, but nothing is sticking out of this point showing massive voter fraud. But without politics the process should continue and should get real answers. It doesn’t yet mean it didn’t happen; it means we haven’t seen it.
M.P.: Do you have any advice to give to President Trump about how he should handle productively the current political situation?
N.E.: Well, there is a lot of dynamics on politics here and President Trump actually threatens in some way to split the Republican Party which would not be good. As far as the Republican Party is concerned, they need to win Georgia in the election, at least one seat in this runoff elections to maintain power of the Senate. So, that should be a primary for the President as well as for the party itself. I think the rhetoric has to calm down a bit that the message of the Republican Party should just be: “we just want answers, let’s just get answers, so we can assure the American population that honesty and integrity were key parts of this election. That’s what we all have to ensure.” I think the President needs to echo that as well. He simply needs to do that and support his own party in Georgia so that they are able to maintain control of the Senate. If he is truly pulling for that conservative side of the country, and we are very close to evenly split in this country, but if he’s truly pulling for that part of the Party, that’s what he’ll do.
M.P.: The President says that the election system is under siege, the Democracy is under siege and he implies that the United States are under attack from China. What are the necessary steps from now on?
N.E.: He is right! We are under attack. I mean quite publicly, they tracked back a lot of the support of the Black Lives Matter Movement to Chinese Organizations. These organizations are identified as Chinese United Front Work organizations. And provided monetary support of that effort. So, there is no question that there is a foreign influence actions going on against the United States and as you know like Greece the US is an open Democracy, so foreign influence is to be expected. Covert foreign influence is not. That’s where we drew the line whether these actions are covert or not. Attacking a US computer system at a State government level or federal government level would be a covert action, right? Funding the Black Lives Matter Movement is covert. So, all of these activities who are covert allow governments to incorrectly and unrightfully influence the United States and put Democracy at risk. That’s what the President is talking about. Once again it should be a bipartisan issue. Who would argue with that? It should be. But of course, in this case it’s benefiting one group over another… And all presidential politicians.
All presidential candidates talk tough on China before they are elected and then the minute, they are elected for the last 30 years they turn around and act we ask the China in so many ways. So, we have a couple of fundamental problems. He is right. We have a political apparatus that has, to date, been influenced by its own arrogance and influenced by US corporate greed, in many cases, to take a softer line and to not protect the Democracy. Along with this American arrogance is the feeling that the Democracy will always be there. Right? The Democracy will survive. Well, maybe it will, maybe it won’t.
But to answer your question we need to do a few things. We need to as a nation State. We need to protect our supply chains. This is something that we’ve witnessed in Europe – the failure of critical supply chains when China refused to supply personal protective equipment; or when it threatened the US that it would stop the antibiotics coming to the United States during Covid. The official Chinese News Agency said multiple times: “We should let America drown in a sea of Covid.” So given this stated threat, and the statements are theirs, not ours; we have to protect our supply chain and we have to build our relationship with Europe again. I mean it’s very – very important to approach this as united liberal Democracies to shape how we want the future of the world to be. We want Democratic order and rule of law on the world so, we have to agree on that, we have to present our own united front and to guide China’s rise. I’m not to saying to stop it because it is going to rise but we have to guide that so, that it is willing to play with the global rule of order, the rule of law. That’s probably first and foremost; and China has already rejected that, saying no we will create our own rule of law, I mean that’s literally what Xi Zipping has said, that the current global order is not acceptable to us, it does not favor China, we want to redo that so all the world can benefit from China, were his words. So, they are talking about redoing the current global order and rule of law globally. I think most Democracies would agree that the time has come that we need to work together to re-enforce and to insist that China fit in to that rule of law as it develops in grows. And then the mechanics of operations and the counterintelligence protecting are intellectual property, protecting our technology development, and for every country protecting its sovereignty. Greece has a big issue it has to address with Piraeus and China’s influence and its ability to control out of Piraeus and what happens if Greece can’t maintain the debt payments and those kinds of things? Greece has a very big, a very awfully strong partner. How is it going to work with China in that specific area and others?
M.P.: We heard a Chinese Academic saying publicly without holding any pretexts that China owns the Wall Street and the American political system. Do you find his words accurate?
N.E.: Lots of countries on the planet had made dramatic mistakes underestimating America. It’s a very, very big mistake because the United States tends to be very apathetic. The people don’t care, they just go on with their lives. I mean it’s a big country. You can be in California on the beach one day and a few hours later you can be skiing in Colorado the next. It is a very self-contained nation-state that way. So, they tend not to care as much about what happens on the outside until they get pushed too far and this is a problem.
Nations tend to underestimate the reaction of the United States or not understand that after a period of time the citizenry and the politicians as well turn around and get annoyed, and they react. In fact, you would say they overreact in the other direction. I think we’re at that point actually with the US Congress because we’ve never seen this much bipartisan agreement in taking measures to address China’s behavior, the CCP’s behavior. I would tell you, that inside the Government I’ve seen the same thing. I’ve never seen money flow like this, you know billions in preparation of being to address in that competitive peer-to-peer relationship and the United States and Defense establishes are investigate quite heavily. I personally think China took it a step too far particularly over Covid. They just overstepped with their behavior and now we are seeing a reaction, at least in the Congress and the bureaucracy, the US bureaucracy. As to political apparatus of the incoming administration, assuming it’s Biden, we’ll see how they react to it — and there 3 power bases here: Government Agencies, you know Professional Military etc. and then there is the Administration and their leadership, and then there’s the US Congress. So, all these 3 power bases, 2 of them are very, very locked into wanting to address China in a much stronger fashion. We’ll see how the Biden Administration is.
M.P.: President Trump said that the coronavirus was a product of the Chinese military lab in Wuhan. Do you believe that Covid-19 is a bioweapon used by the CCP to attack the United States?
N.E.: No, I don’t. I don’t think the evidence supports it as a bioweapon. You know there a number of other things you can do with a bioweapon. I think that the Covid-19 come from the Wuhan market. I think it could have been leaked from the lab, it could be someone selling animals from the lab to Wuhan market. I think something like that could have happened easily in one of the labs. I forgot the name of it is about 500 meters not even from the Wuhan market. Those labs have been cited numerous times for their lack of security protocols and procedures and their lack of safety in containment so it’s been problematic for them for quite some period of time. So, could it have leaked from there, yes. I knew and I had told some colleagues in the very first about December 1st or 2nd last year so this is a couple weeks before things actually really started to become public because I heard from friends who were in the Medical Community in China that we’ve got a very serious virus here. So, word was leaking out in that very, very first part of December last year. Within the first week people knew about it, but as very, very typical with Chinese bureaucracy the entire issue of saving face came in to being. There had been times historically that China has gone to the United Stated and asked for the US assessment on its crops in its agricultural production. Why? Why is China coming to the United States and asks for our assessments on their agricultural or industrial production? And it’s because within their bureaucracy, from the local levels to the national level, everybody is saving face. So, everyone says, “oh the crop field is great, the industrial products are great” and China states that there isn’t any problem in the State-Owned Enterprises. In reality, they have no idea how the local State Enterprises are doing because everyone keeps on lying. And they do so to save face.
So, of course when something like a virus comes up everybody is saving their own faces. “It’s not me, it’s them.” It’s anyone but us lying and controlling and trying to cover it up. And in this case those weeks were critical. No one knew before, but those weeks were absolutely critical to controlling the virus and they did lie even at the national level. The local level lied to the national level and the national level lied to the world. Because that’s basically the way they do business. It’s all a matter of saving face.
So, unfortunately for the rest of the world and for 300,000 Americans who have died at this point, the Chinese government was unwilling, and didn’t have the honesty, as we in the West would, to say, “look we have a major problem here we think it’s human-to-human transmitted. Close down your borders”, something like that. Instead, they actually left their international borders open, and even though they controlled the internal borders and wouldn’t let people travel through late January, they let people leave China which was the precipitating factor in this virus spreading worldwide.
M.P.: Mr. Eftimiades we have Hunter Biden’s laptop from hell which according to the American Media and Rudy Giuliani proves that the Biden family is compromised. If these allegations are true how this man, Joe Bide, can be the next President and what we have to expect from such kind of Presidency in the geopolitical balances in the Pacific Ocean?
N.E.: It’s a very tough question. I don’t know the answer and I don’t think anyone else does. I mean just now we’ve started to learn that there is actually an FBI criminal investigation on Hunter Biden. These types of things are not common in US history so in modern history it’s a little frightening. I don’t know what the reaction would be if it’s a Biden Administration. What the reaction will be and how they will deal with China. What type of real leverage China might have over the Biden Administration. Enough information is not out publicly where you can actually make these determinations. And then there’s a whole dynamic of the American Media, most of which does not cover this. You know they talk about disinformation within the Media what really happens is that the Media, the American Media, for subjects that they think might be damaging to a favored social issue or the Democratic Party, they just don’t cover it. They just say, it’s not an issue. And you know where as interested people, academics, and such people who actually look for the information, will ultimately find out what is going on. The rest of the country, the voting population, doesn’t. So, there is a dynamic of what might actually happen in the investigation, you know that’s a real thing, and what could happen with Hunter Biden. I see it as what might happen if the Chinese may (or may not_ are able to influence of this Administration and around that, is what the Press is willing to report. If they are not willing to report it, the American public doesn’t know about it. It is almost like it doesn’t happen. So, it’s this reality and then there’s this whole Media world that we are living in and trying to make sense of things, so I don’t have a good answer for you.
M.P.: And sadly, most of the Media in the US are against President Trump.
N.E.: Yes, that much is certain. Most of it is. In fact, the statistics that come out are saying that 95% of Media reporting has been against President Trump. So yeah, we’ve lost objectivity in journalism here quite some time ago. So, it’s an interesting impact on our democracy, a free Press which is a corner stone for the Unites States turns out to be true but also subjection to be manipulated by the Press. It’s problematic, I think many Americans, you know there are different levels of thinking in the United States, you have the cities on East Coast, the West Coast and then what they call the fly over States, the ones in the Middle, who are basically working-class Americans who wants to vote for Trump, the real core and heartbeat of the country but often overlooked economically and even politically and in policy. So, if they are really reading Al Jazeera, if they are reading the London Times, if they are reading papers globally, they have a different prospective and you can do that now through Internet. Usually, they don’t. Usually, they just read their local paper except the Washington who are so corrupt that I don’t want anything to do with it. So, as the information dynamics change, we’ll see. Hopefully people are a little more educated and better to deal with their own politicians.
M.P.: Mr. Eftimiades thank you very much for this conversation. It was a privilege and an honor talking with you, Sir. God Bless you!
Nicholas Eftimiades has served for over 34 years in government service. His career includes serving as a Technical Operations Officer with the CIA, a U.S. State Department Special Agent with the Bureau of Diplomatic Security, and a Senior Intelligence Officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency. Mr. Eftimiades serves as a subject matter expert on Chinese espionage and has an M.S. Strategic Intelligence, National Defense Intelligence College; and a B.A. East Asian Studies, George Washington University. He is the owner of the Shinobi Enterprises, LLC Consulting Services.